This is a review and critique of Scott Hakes presentation, Explore Prophecy. This consisted of seventeen sessions beginning on September the 17th and ending on October the 17th. The four week seminar was presented at the Seventh Day Adventist Church in Sierra Vista, located at 777 South Highway 92.
As far as the location, computerized power point presentations displayed on a theater sized screen, and the audio system of the speaker, one could not ask for a better set up.
The sanctuary, the air conditioning, and the promptness of the speaker each night was exceptional. The opportunity to submit questions and prayer request in writing, the door prizes, the speakers ability to connect with the audience, and the refreshments after services, were all exceptional. Job Well Done. Very professional and enjoyable.
The help with parking, and the hospitality of the church members is also to be highly commended.
I am not a member of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. I came to the Prophecy seminar because I received a very nice brochure in the mail, and because of an unction of the Holy Ghost. My name is Charles Gregory Marlowe. I am sixty-two years old and have lived in Sierra Vista, Az, since 1981. I have held just about every position there is to hold in a local church and have been living for God for the past thirty-five years. I consider myself to be a man of God. Most of what I believe I have received from God after many years of praying and fasting. The following is my review and opinion, with corrections, of what was taught by Scott Hakes. Enjoy.
|1. War in Heaven||12. The Churches Sabbath|
|2. God the Son||13. A Shadow of Things to Come|
|3. The creation of Lucifer||14. Tongues are for a Sign|
|4. What's in a Day?||15. Revelation or Revealing|
|5. Judgement Day||16. Separation or Sin|
|6. Antiochus Epiphanes||17. The Gap Phenomenon|
|7. Messiah is cut off||18. To and fro|
|8. Baptism for Salvation||19. Israel, Jerusalem, the Temple|
|9. What's in a Name?||20. 144,000, the Church or Jacob?|
|10. The Ten Commandments||21. The Secret Raputre|
|11. Water and Spirit||22. The Four Horsemen, not?|
1. First of all, Scott Hakes started each night with the subject of "War in Heaven." His topical verse was, Revelation 12:7, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels."
Scott repeatedly said that this war began before God created Adam and Eve. That Satan had started lying about God to the other angels and that things came to a head when God said, "O.K. Lucifer, if your so great, let's see what you can do." God pointed to the Abysos in space, that is the earth when it was still void, and without form, and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and God said, "show me your stuff." Well, Satan couldn't do anything, because he is not the creator and sustainer of life. So then God told his Son, God the Son, to show what he could do, and God the Son proceeded to create Light and all things in heaven and earth as recorded in the book of Genesis Chapters one and two. Scott also pointed out that the Archangel Michael was not an angel at all, but that Michael is God's name when he is at war. The word "Archangel" really meaning something more like, Commander in Chief. So God the Son, when at war is referred to as Michael. God the Son is the Archangel, who himself is not an Angel.
All of this is incorrect, beginning with the war in heaven. If one reads Revelation Chapter twelve one finds out that all of creation was completed before the war. The nation of Israel had brought forth the man child who was to rule all nations with the rod of Iron. Satan cast a third of the angels to earth to destroy the baby Jesus. When Jesus was in the grave Satan attempted to reenter heaven and assume control. He was met by the Archangel Michael and his angels, not Jesus. "Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." Satan had access to heaven until this war took place. We know when this war took place because the next three verses tell us. "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath "
So we see that Salvation has come. This was purchased with Christ's death on the cross, and while Christ was preaching to the dead in Sheol, Satan was attempting to take over heaven. He was defeated by Michael, not Jesus, and cast out of heaven. Satan is now the prince of the power of the air. Christ was then raised from the dead and is seated on the throne in heaven. The woman, which is a remnant of Israel, is protected from the Dragon until the times of restoration, the second coming of Christ.
2. Scott Hakes repeatedly used the expression, God the Son. The expression "God the Son" is not in the Bible. This expression was probably invented by the Catholic Church, which definitely promotes its use. In the beginning, Jehovah God created all things by his Word. God's word was not a person. My word in not a person but a manifestation of my thoughts. When I speak, you hear my thoughts. When God speaks, his thoughts come into existence. When God says, let there be light, there is light. When God says, " Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth," it happens. When God speaks he doesn't turn into a son. The words that he speaks are not a son. But when the fullness of time was come, God spoke his word into the womb of Mary, and his word became the DNA that impregnated Mary. The word was made flesh and we beheld God's word as the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Isaiah states, "Thus saith the LORD(JEHOVAH), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD(JEHOVAH) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
In the beginning there was no God the Son. God did assume a physical presence in the form of a man. He appeared to the angels in heaven and to many of his saints on earth, either directly, or in visions. This visible form of God is referred to symbolically as the "Son of Man." This image of God was Christ. Not Christ the Son of God, but Christ the visible image of the invisible God. It is this image that people mistakenly refer to as God the Son. This image of Jehovah was replaced by Jesus, the Son of God, in the New Testament. The Son of God has become the Christ, the image of the invisible God. All of the Godhead dwells in Jesus Christ bodily.
Scott Hakes starts off each night with Satan in heaven creating problems with God and the angels. Satan couldn't create life but God the Son created light and life on the earth. But does the Bible record this?
Scott occasionally refers to John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." 3. But Scott never mentions that that included the creation of Satan and all the angels, the universe and all the other worlds that Scott refers to. There was no Satan, nor angels, nor any other being or thing in existence until God began speaking things into existence. As Colossians 1:16, states, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."
How is it that God, and Satan, and God the Son, and a whole host of angels and beings from many worlds in the universe were in existence before God spoke them into existence? And since Scott believes that all things were created by God the Son, how is it that God the Son had to start all over again, with a whole new creation, to prove to those he first created that he indeed is the creator?
In Ephesians and Peter the Bible states that God has chosen that through the Church, angels and principalities might know the manifold grace and wisdom of God. Yes, there is a great conflict between God and Satan, and God's plan is unfolding right now on planet earth before all of the beings in Heaven according to the eternal purpose which God purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord before the world began.
Scott Hakes tells us that there is a key to understanding time in prophesy. 4. Scott states that days are to be interpreted as years. Apparently this key comes from Ezekiel 4:6. God told Ezekiel to lie on his left side and his right side for 390 days and 40 days for the sins of idolatry committed by Israel and Judah. God told Ezekiel each day would be for a year. Obviously Ezekiel couldn't lie there for 430 years. This does not mean that in all Bible prophesies we are to interpret days as years. They clearly are not. It is interesting to note that in Ezekiel and Numbers where days do represent years, that God told both Ezekiel and Moses that the days represented years. If a prophesy does not say that the days are years, then they aren't. Almost no Bible scholars, past or present, believe that a day equals a year in Bible prophesy. The Bible does say that a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. There is a beautiful promise to Israel in Hosea 6:2 where God says, "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight." This is speaking of the nation of Israel being deserted for two thousand years(the church age) and on the third day, the Thousand year reign of Christ, Isreal shall be restored with a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.
This is also speaking literally about Jesus. Luke 24:7, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. Jesus being the New Testament Temple of God. So we see that a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day. Scott tells us about a period of time in Daniel 8:14, "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." He goes on to state that this was speaking of 2,300 years which came to pass in 1844. This cleansing of the temple was speaking of Christ judging humanity beginning with Adam and Eve. Every educated Bible Scholar knows that the 2,300 days was speaking of 2,300 days. 6. This took place during the time of Antiochus Epiphanes. This man was truly one of the most evil men that ever lived. He was a Syrian ruler from 175-164 B.C. He entered Jerusalem and plundered the temple treasures and butchered its inhabitants early in his reign. Later in his reign he removed all of God's objects of worship from the temple, offered a pig on the alter, and set up a new altar unto Zeus. He prohibited the Jews from practicing circumcision and keeping the Sabbath Day. The temple was in this state of desecration for 2,300 days until Judas Maccabeus succeeded in routing Antiochus's armies and restoring temple worship. The Jews were very careful to observe God's commandments in cleansing the temple. That cleansing and restoring of worship has been remembered as Hannakah, or the Feast of Dedication. It is referred to in John 10:22, "And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter."
The Bible is also very clear that no eternal judgement of anyone takes place until the second coming of Jesus Christ. And the church will not be judged until the rapture of the Church. Abraham and all his Hebrew descendants will be judged at the beginning of the thousand year reign of Christ, Daniel 12:1-4, and Revelation 11:18. After that reign of one thousand years, all the rest of humanity that ever lived will be judged, Revelation 20:11-15. Our judgement begins when we are born again of water and of the Spirit. 1Peter 4:17, "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" Revelation 20:6, "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." 2 Corinthians 5:10, states, "we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." But this judgement is a judgement of rewards, not of salvation, as pertaining to the Church. The Bible states in Hebrews 9:27, "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" Scott has suggested on several occasions that our judgement time could come up before we die. This is obviously quite ridiculous.
Scott does give one correct interpretation of the time line of Christ's birth. According to Daniel's Seventy weeks, the temple is to be rebuilt the first seven weeks, which are weeks of years. This is forty-nine years. Then the next sixty-two weeks takes us to the baptism of Jesus by John the baptist in the river Jordan. This is the anointing of the most Holy. This is correct. And Messiah is cut off in the midst of the week, three and a half years later. This is when Christ is crucified. But then Scott makes a big mistake. He states that the week ended with the martyrdom of Stephen. The week has actually been suspended since the death of Christ and will begin again when the Church is raptured. The second half of the week will be fulfilled with the ministry of the Anti-Christ. The reason why God uses weeks to signify the times of years is because Israel had not keep the Sabbath year for seventy times. The Sabbath year being at the end of a week of years. Seventy times seven is 490 years. The time line was prophesied to the Nation of Israel. When Jesus died on the cross, Israel ceased to be God's witness on this earth. When the Church is raptured, then Israel again will be recognized as God's witness on earth. God will send his two olive trees to Jerusalem to witness to the world for three and a half years until the time of restoration. Revelation 11:3-4, and Acts 3:21. 9/27/2009
Next is baptism and the Sabbaths.
One night of Scott's presentations was devoted to baptism. Scott had mentioned, perhaps the first night, that the way to be saved was to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour and to be baptized. That is what Jesus said in Mark 16:16. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned"
On the night of Scott's baptism presentation he gave many good scriptures explaining the meaning of baptism and that it was always done by immersion. But, He failed to mention the great controversy as to what is to be said when one is baptized. Apparently Scott hasn't read much on the subject or perhaps he wanted to avoid the issue. In Matthew 28:19, it states, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." But on the day of Pentecost, Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
There has been much discussion and arguing among Christians, especially during the past one hundred years, as to which of these verses should be used as a baptismal formula. There are probably a dozen or so different church organizations that insist on what Peter said, and about a thousand or so that insist on what Jesus said. History tells us that all early baptism was done by immersion in the Name of Jesus. In the second century A.D. some began using the titles Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. It was the Catholic Church that eventually changed the formula to the titles Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. They also changed baptism from immersion to sprinkling. They also instituted infant baptism. They also invented a triune God of three persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
As Scott's presentations have continued over several weeks we discover that he, and rightly so, believes that the Roman Catholic Church is the Great Whore, and for all practical purposes, is the mother of all the protestant churches, which are also Harlots. He then points out that it is curious that the protestant churches still continue to hold on to many of the practices of the Roman Catholic Church. Infant baptism, sprinkling, and observing Sunday instead of Saturday, (the true Sabbath), being his main complaints.
My complaint with Scott is that he doesn't include the fact that baptism in the titles, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the doctrine of the trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, were also invented by the Roman Catholic Church. Scott repeatedly uses the expression, God the Son, which is Catholic doctrine. He also says that he baptizes using the titles Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Paul said, "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius." The apostle Paul presented many of his teachings as questions. What Paul was saying is that Christ is not divided and that they were all baptized into the Name of Jesus, who was the one who was crucified for them. By the way, the expression "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" is only found once in the entire Bible. Being baptized in the name of Jesus is found four times in the book of Acts and is referred to throughout the rest of the New Testament. Paul states in Colossians 3:17, "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him." Acts 19:1-6, also lets us know that baptism is only good if it is done in the name of the Lord Jesus, and that if one was baptized in some other name, for some other reason, he or she needs to be rebaptized, by immersion, in the name of Lord Jesus for the remission of sins. What's in a Name?
Acts 4:12, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Isn't God good?
Scott devoted a good bit of time one evening trying to prove that the ten commandments of the Old Testament are still a part of the New Testament. He kept saying that if one rejects one of them, he must reject all of them. James uses this argument to prove that we must keep all of the Law of Liberty and that we will be judged by the Law of Liberty. I dont keep the Law of Moses engraved in stones, but the Law of Liberty written on the fleshly tables of my heart. I don't keep the ten commandments of Moses, but I do keep the commandments of the New Testament. I had several lengthy conversations with a Seventh Day Adventist pastor named Phillip Mcgoldrick(sp?) in Yuma, Arizona about thirty years ago. They were very informative. He said that we were not under the condemnation of the O.T. Law but we were under the jurisdiction of the O.T. Law. He gave me a number brochures explaining Seventh Day Adventist doctrine which I read with all seriousness. I prayed and fasted about what I read. God then brought four verses to me the next day as I read the scriptures. God always answers my prayers and fastings out of his Word. The first verse that he directed me to was Galations 2:19, " For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God." The second verse he brought to my attention was Romans 7:1, "Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?" As I pondered these versus I was reminded of Colossians 3:3, "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." I suddenly realized what Galations 2:19, was saying. The law itself says that if a person is dead he is set free from the law. Paul says that we are buried into Christ's death when we repent and are baptized. He flat out says in Colossians 3:3, that we are dead and our life is hid with Christ in God. So according to the Law I am freed from the Law. The fourth verse that the Holy Spirit brought to my attention was Matthew 28:19-20, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
Jesus never commanded his disciples to teach circumcision, the Sabbath day, or the paying of tithes. The Jews were constantly trying to introduce these things into Christian teachings. The reason I know that Christ never commanded his apostles to teach these things is because they never did. Not once in the New Testament did Paul, Peter, James, Jude, or John, ever write to the Church, "remember to pay your tithes." Not once did Paul, Peter, James, Jude, or John, ever write to the Church reminding them to keep the Sabbath day. Not once did Paul, Peter, James, Jude, or John, ever write to the Church reminding them to circumcise their children on the eighth day. Not once did Paul, Peter, James, Jude, or John, ever write to the Church reminding them to keep the ten commandments. Oh yes, Paul wrote in I Corinthians 6:9-10, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
But nobody ever said anything about breaking or keeping the Sabbath day in the N.T. BTW, the New Testament began in the book of Acts Chapter Two. The Day of Pentecost is the birthday of the New Testament Church. While Jesus was still alive, he and every other Jew was duty bound to keep the Law. All of it. But when Jesus was graveyard dead, then a New Testament was purchased and put into effect. Hebrews 9:16-17.
There were two new commandments given on the Day of Pentecost. Jesus referred to them in John 3:5, " Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Peter knew what this parable or riddle meant. He properly interpreted it. "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
For a person to be saved he or she must be baptized in water and filled with the Holy Ghost. This is what it means to born again of water and the Spirit. Water baptism is the circumcision of the New Testament according to Colossians 2:11-12, "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."
And being filled with the Holy Ghost is our Sabbath. Isaiah 28:11-12, "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear."
I'm glad I heard. This is the sabbath that Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 11:28, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." The Holy Ghost and the Name of Jesus are the seals, signs, and marks of the New Testament. When one receives the Holy Spirit it will be evidenced by the speaking in other tongues. As Paul states, "tongues are for a sign." Our signs and seals are water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Thank God. The sign that one has entered into God's Sabbath is the sign of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. If this hasn't happened to you, you are not keeping Christ's Sabbath. Since the Old Testament Jews could not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, they were commanded to keep a day of rest. But Jesus died so we could enter into the true Sabbath of God, the Spirit of Christ. As Paul states in Romans 8:9, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Second Corinthians 5:17. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." No more fleshly circumcision, no more weekly Sabbaths. Thank God for the Holy Spirit. The important thing about the Sabbath is not the Day but what the Day represented. A day of REST. God wants us to rest or cease from our dead works and walk in the Spirit. Luke 1:74-75, " That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life." Heb 4:10, "For he that is entered into his(God's) rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."
Also, in reference to keeping the Sabbath Holy, it is impossible to live a holy life and keep any day Holy, without being washed in the blood of Jesus, water baptism in Jesus name, and being filled with the Holy Ghost. Peter reminds us "Be ye Holy for I am Holy," Saints keep every day Holy.
By the way, Paul blasted the Galation Churches for going back under the Law of Moses, keeping the cricumcision of the flesh, and the sabbath days and the new moons etc.
In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explains that the Sabbath day was a shadow of things to come. The Jewish Sabbath day is a shadow of the One Thousand Year Reign of Christ in Jerusalem. " Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Israel's true Sabbath Day is the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ.
A day is as a thousand years.
In reference to worship being done on the Jewish Sabbath by the early church, that is correct. The church worshipped on the Sabbath because all of the early Christians were Jewish. It wasn't until Cornelius that a Gentile was saved and he lived in Isreal and worshipped God according to the Jewish law. But keeping the Jewish Sabbath was never taught by the Apostles of Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact the reason why they kept the Sabbath day and many other Jewish customs was because they succumbed to the pressure of the Jews that were in authority. Acts 21:20, " and (James) said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law." Because of this they told Paul to shave his head and purify himself according to the law before entering into the temple. But they also reminded him that none of the gentiles were bound by any of these things. This whole conflict of the gentiles being bound by the Laws of Moses came to a head many years before and was addressed in Acts chapter 15. Paul is again reminded by James in Acts 20:25, "As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication." Even these laws were only mentioned because of the Jews that lived in those same cities where the gentiles were saved. Amazing how this list of the laws keeps getting longer and longer with organizations such as the Seventh Day Adventist Church.
Speaking of tongues
Someone had a question for Scott about speaking in tongues. Scott did not deny that this was one of the gifts given to the church by the Spirit. This can be found in 1Corinthians 12:10, "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues." Strictly speaking, the Bible does not say the gift of tongues. The bible does speak of the gift of the Holy Ghost. People fail to realize that there are at least four or five different types of speaking in tongues. The bible mentions 1. Other Tongues (Acts2:4), 2. Unknown Tongues (Cor 14:4) , 3. Tongues of Angels (1Cor 13:1) ,4. Intercessory Tongues (Rom 8:26), and 5. My own Spiritual Tongue (1Cor 14:14). Unknown tongues and my own Spiritual Tongues are probably one in the same. The point being that when one initially receives the Holy Spirit, one will speak in Other Tongues, some other known tongue that is unknown to the speaker, as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance. This is what happened on the Day of Pentecost, to the city of Samaria, to the Ethiopian eunuch, to Cornelius and his household, and the twelve disciples of John the baptist who were rebaptized in the name of Jesus. The sign that one has received the gift of the Holy Ghost is "speaking in other tongues" as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance. Everyone who receives the Holy Ghost will initially speak in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. After all, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, the Word of God in Spirit form. It speaks through you in another tongue when you first receive it. If you have not had this experience, you have not been filled with the Holy Ghost, and therefore have not entered the rest, or Sabbath of God. God is Spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in Spirit and Truth. This is not the same as the gift of tongues. Very few people are actually used by God to bring a message to the church in tongues and interpretation of tongues. I have only seen it occur about twenty-five times in the past thirty-five years.
Scott frequently refers to the beginning of the book of Revelation. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John" It's a shame that Scott never gets past the first five words. The sentence is over thirty words long. Since he can't get past the opening words he keeps misinterpreting what it says. He also says that revelation means "the revealing." It does not say that. Scott says the book of Revelation is the revealing of who Jesus is. This is not true. The revelation is a revelation of prophesy which God gave unto him concerning the future of the Church and of Israel after the flesh. Jesus sent this prophesy by his angel, no doubt Gabriel, to John on the Isle of Patmos. The angel signified it to the apostle John. John didn't see Jesus on the Isle of Patmos, he saw an angel.
Scott repeatedly speaks of us as being separated from God. He tries to mollify sin by saying we are in a condition of separation, not in a sinful condition. The Bible states, "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." Our sins have separated us from God. If we repent of our sins and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ we can then come boldly before the throne of God. I must admit that the third week of Scotts presentations he began recognizing sin as being the reason for our separation from God.
The Gap Principle
I once had a pastor who explained to me how many preachers make the mistake of thinking that most of the prophesies in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel pertain to the Church. He showed me, that in fact, almost all of them are to the nation of Isreal. The things happening during the Church age of the past two thousand years are almost never mentioned in Prophesy, especially the Gentile Church. That was almost thirty years ago. As I have studied prophey since then I have always been careful not to fall into that trap. I also have noticed how every generation wants to apply the prophesies to themselves. A lot of preachers have made fools of themselves over the past two thousand years. When I first turned to the Lord back in 1974, I thought Jesus would come in 1984. Then in 2000. Now I dont think Jesus will return for another ten or twenty years. Back in 1977, when I was rebaptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, I attended a small Pentecostal Assemblies of the World church in Yuma, AZ. The pastor, Pastor Carl Franklin Nevels, who was a black man, told me that it was mostly white men who were preoccupied with prophesy and the book of Revelation. He said his main concern was in getting people saved, and keeping them saved. He was one of the most knowledgeable preachers I ever knew, and he was smart enough to know that the understanding of the last eighteen chapters of the book of Revelation had not yet been opened. He did tell me that they spoke of things past, present and future. I first read the book in the spring of 1974. Yes, what a revelation. I at least understood at that time that stars represented angels. I continued to do extensive study of the book from time to time and the Lord would reveal to me about one new thing per year over the next twenty-five years. I read a number of books by other very famous authors and was not convinced by what they had to say. I did not have the answers, but at the same time my spirit did not bear witness theirs. Then, in January of 2001, while pastoring a small congregation, one of my church members brought me some videos by a well know so-called prophesy expert and asked me what I thought. What the man was saying was so far off, as far as I was concerned, I decided it was time to re-examine the book of Revelation and explain to my congregation what was the truth. It was at this time that I noticed what appeared to be a discrepancy in the book of Revelation that opened up to me a whole new understanding of the book. With twenty-seven years of experience and study under my belt, God could show me more. I believe that now that we have moved into the twenty-first century, more things will be revealed because the time is more at hand. That brings up another point about Scott Hakes. He points out in the book of Daniel where it says many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Except whenever he quotes it, he says men shall run to and fro through their bibles and knowledge shall be increased. Why cant people just leave the word of God alone? Maybe hes trying to make a connection with the book of Amos, 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. I dont know about you, but it seems that it is still talking about physically travelling from town to town throughout the earth, not from one end of the Bible to the other. Daniel, 12:4, But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
The book is sealed unto the time of the end. The sealed book, the last chapter of Daniel, is probably what the Seven Thunders uttered in Revelation 10:4, And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
There is a time of prophesy that has not yet come. And it wont be what most people think it will be. Scott Hakes thinks he has the answers about the mark of the beast etc. I dont think so. He applies prophesies in Daniel and Revelation to the church and world history over the past two thousand years. I think that many were fulfilled before this time, and the rest are yet to be fulfilled. Applying the prophesies specifically to the Catholic Church and Martin Luther, etc., is a big mistake. Yes the Word of God is cyclical. Many prophesies are repeated throughout history. But dont confuse the general with the specific. There is a church in lower Huachuca City that thinks that Jesus is literally the seed of David because of a misinterpretation of 2Samuel 7:12-16, And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
On first reading this could easily be misunderstood to mean Jesus, and generally speaking it does. But specifically it was speaking of Solomon.
II Chronicles 22:7-10, And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God: But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight. Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. Because of the pastors misunderstanding there are hundreds of people that literally believe that Jesus is the Son of David, both on his mothers side, and his fathers side. The pastor explains that when John said the Word was made flesh, it meant that the Word of God was fulfilled, not literally made flesh. Pastor Malone has taught this doctrine for over thirty years.
Israel, after the flesh, and after the Spirit.
Tonight Scott Hakes went over the same war in heaven bit. I guess if one repeats something over, and over, and over, it will become the truth.
Scotts main topic tonight has been that the end times does not revolve around the nation of Israel. As a matter of fact, says he, if that nation were destroyed tomorrow, it wouldnt make a bit of difference. How could Scott make such a bold statement? Because, according to Scott, Israel after the flesh, since the martyrdom of St. Stephen, has been rejected by God. Since that time the true Israel has been the believers in Christ, not the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Now the apostle Paul makes it very clear that a true Jew is one, that is one inwardly. And in Phillipians 3:3, Paul states, For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. As Jesus said to the Jews, if ye were Abrahams seed you would rejoice to see me. But since ye go about to kill me, ye are of your father the Devil. This is why Jesus said to Nicodemus, except a man be born again he cannot see nor enter the kingdom of God. By the way, I enjoyed what Scott had to say about Abraham and Isaac, or rather their wives, trying to promote the plan of God. It never fails but to make a lot of trouble. But getting back to Isreal, yes the true born again Christians of today are the Kingdom of God. Not the nation of Israel. And yes, Christ is going to rapture the Church, not Israel. But, I will have to differ greatly with Scott if he thinks that God has forgotten Israel after the flesh. In Romans Chapter Ten and Eleven Paul makes it quite clear that Israel has been blinded in part and one day will repent and be saved. Romans 11:25, For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And again in 2Corinthians 3:7-8, But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 2Cor 3:13-14, And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
There will come a time when all Israel, as a nation, and Im talking about Israel after the flesh, shall be saved. This Kingdom of Israel will be set up after the battle of Armageddon.
Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
How anyone, after reading the last fourteen chapters of Ezekiel, could think that God has forgotten about Israel after the flesh, is beyond me. God says hes going to bring the nation of Israel back to the land that he scattered them from. He will reunite the ten northern tribes with Judah. He will bring all the nations of the world against them. And when Israel is about to be destroyed He will come and save them. He will not save them because of their good deeds. He will not save them because they have repented. He will not save them because of their faith in Jesus when He first came. He will save them for His own Names Sake. He will save them because of the promises that he made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, after the flesh. And when all these back-slidden Jews that have disgraced God and rejected their Messiah for the past 2,000 years see that God is real, and that Jesus is their Christ, and just how incredibly profane and evil they have been, they will lothe themselves in their own sight for their iniquities and for their abominations.
I am reminded of a German friend I once had who hates the Jews. I asked him why he was so against the Jews. He said they were truly a dirty people. He said they literaly were filthy in their lifestyle. It sounds like the way Koreans talk about the Chinese. I tried to defend their condition, but he would not accept my defense. Then he told me that the Jews killed Jesus. I then told him that Jesus was a Jew. He stopped his ears in disbelief. That cant be true, he shouted, the Jews Killed Jesus. I then told him that is why the Jews had him killed, because He was a Jew. Lest we also forget that Jesus is a son of Israel after the flesh, Jesus hasnt. Jesus is a Jew, made of a woman, made under the Law. And he will come back in Glory to save the nation of Israel, after the flesh, from extinction. Read Revelation Chapter 19, and Ezekiel Chapter 39. As Scott would say, I rest my case.
144,000, the Church or Jacob?
I have never associated the first group of 144,000 people in Revelation 7:4, with the second group of 144,000 in Revelation chapter 14:1. Scott believes they are the same. I believe they represent Jews that are sealed by angels that will go through the great tribulation period. They are the remant of Israel referred to several time in the Old Testament. I do believe that the second group in Revelation chapter seven is the Raptured Church. I also believe that those who have washed their robes white in the blood of the lamb are the same as those who are in Revelation 14:1. When I wrote my treatise on the chronological order of the Book of Revelation back in 2001, I had not yet heard what was spoken to me in September of 2002. BTW, in September and October of 2002, I devoted two weeks to prayer, and then another five weeks to prayer, witnessing, and fasting. Yes, a thirty-five day fast. What I heard in the first week of fasting was this, The tenth part is mine. When I heard this, I believed it to mean that a tenth part of the worlds population would be saved at the rapture of the Church. Since Gods number of completion is seven, I also understood this to mean that the worlds population would probably be seven billion people before the rapture would take place. There is a good chance that it will be 7,777,777,777. The last 777,777,777, being raptured, and that combined with all the dead in Christ would make up the symbolic 144,000. This number is probably more like 1.44, billion souls. I also understood that we are Gods tithe, not money or other worldly things. I also understood that we, The Church, The Body of Christ, are the Firstfruits unto God, not worldly fruits or vegetables, or sheep, etc. People really get hung up on the Law of Moses, and the reason why is because they havent been baptized with the Holy Ghost. Their minds are carnal and understand carnal things. The Law was given to men in the flesh. They cant understand the things of the Spirit. They think they are spiritually minded, but they arent. Oh that God would pour out his spirit on all those who claim to be Christians. Something that Scott doesnt seem to realize is that the blood of Christ is applied to the believer during water baptism in the name of Jesus. The blood is in the water. That is what John saw when Christ was pierced in his side. John 19:34, But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. The old testament repeatedly refers to blood being mixed with water before being used to sanctify and purify the articles of the tabernacle and the people of God. In the New Testament, this is done when one is baptized with water in the name of Jesus. One washes his or her robe white in the blood of the Lamb, when he or she gets baptized in the name of Jesus. Thats why it must be in the name of Jesus and that is why it must be by immersion.
Getting back to the 144,000, the Church or Jacob?
So, if the twelve thousand out of the twelve, (actually eleven, Joseph is counted twice) tribes of Israel is speaking of Spiritual Israel, accoreding to Scott, then the one tribe that was left out is speaking of the natural Israel. That tribe is Dan. If you do your homework you will find out that Dan was the tribe that set up idol worship in Israel. The word Dan means Judge. The prophesy about Dan was, Genesis 49:17, Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. The spirit of Dan has been Israels demise ever since Rachel swiped her dads idols and brought them back with her when they left the land of Laban. I think it is quite possible that the false Prophet is a literal descendant of Dan. The children of Dan set up a silver idol in the city of Dan way back in the book of Judges. And Jeroboam set up the golden calves in the city of Dan and Bethel way back when Rehoboam, Solomons son, was king. Thats why the ten northern tribes were scattered throughout all the earth. That is also one of the main reasons why Judah and Jerusalem were carried captive into Babylon and why the temple was destroyed. Because of Idolatry. So the tribe of Dan is Israel after the flesh. But since his name is on one of the gates of New Jerusalem we know that God will restore him(Ezekiel 48:32, Revelation 21:12). Israel after the flesh will go through the great tribulation and come out on the other side and be saved. But as Paul states in Romans 11:28, As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. Sorry Scott, there is an Israel after the flesh, that according to your own teaching, must be restored. Not for their sakes, but because of the promises that God made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, after the flesh. Isnt God good? This is the Nation of Israel that was set up in 1948. It is this nation that continues to cause Gods name Israel to be blasphemed throughout all the world.
There is another group of people, who have the everlasting Gospel preached unto them. I dont believe that they are a part of the raptured church mentioned in Revelation Chapters 5, 7, and the beginning of 14. These are the ones left behind that will be beheaded for rejecting the Antichrist. They are mentioned in Revelation Chapter 6:9-10, 15:2-4, and 20:4. They are mentioned after the voice from heaven said, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth. They are reaped from the earth with a sharp sickle. This done before the ultimate wrath of God is poured out on the entire world, which follows after the beast or Antichrist. This wrath is represented by seven golden vials, which seven angels pour out upon the earth.
The Secret Raputre
Despite what Scott has taught about there not being a secret rapture, and he is certainly not alone in this belief, I beg to differ. We cant come back with Christ if we first dont meet up with him in the air. In the New Testament, when someone dies in the Lord, he or she falls asleep. As the scripture says, Ec 9:10, Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Our spirit of life returns to the God who gave it and our soul goes to sleep. So Paul says in 1Thessalonians 4:14, For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. How is God going to do this? 1Thess 4:16-17, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The Bible states that we will all, both dead and living Christians, be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.
In Revelation chapter five is speaks of the raptured church telling Christ that he is worthy to loose the seals of the closed book of the end time prophesies. Rev 5:9-10, And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. The raptured Church is there in heaven before the seven seals are opened. The church is again seen in heaven in Chapters seven and fourteen. We then find out about another everlasting Gospel being preached by an Angel and people being saved by worshipping God and refusing the mark of the Beast. We then see that they are reaped from the earth. They are described in Revelation 6:9-11, and 15:2. Then again in Rev. 19:7, the wife of the Lamb is described as having made herself ready for the Marriage of the Lamb.
Then we see Christ on a white horse, and his bride with him on white horses, ready to return to earth and do battle with all the nations who have gathered themselves against Israel after the flesh. They are the ones who have gone through the fire, and been protected by Michael and his angels. Not the Church. The church has been protected like Noah and Lot. They were both delivered out of the day of the wrath of God, not by being supernaturally protected by Angels but by being physically removed from the destruction. In Noahs case, he and his family were raised up above the flood by the Ark which they had built by faith, and in Lots case, the angels took him by the hand and led him out of the cities that were to be destroyed. So will God remove his Bride from the seven trumpet and seven vial judgements to be poured out on the world. As a matter of fact these judgements will not be poured out on the world until the people who have refused the mark of the beast have all been killed. The space of silence in heaven will be that time of about three years after the rapture of the church, when the first trumpet was sounded, until the trumpets begin to sound again heralding the judgement of God. Revelation Chapter 8. The Great Tribulation will begin seven months before the battle of Armageddon. 2Peter 2:9, The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished. Luke 21:36, Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Revelation 3:10, Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Hebrews12:14, Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
Yes Scott, there is a Secret Rapture. And no one will see the Lord but the raptured Church.
Many people teach that the Great Tribulation will be seven years long. That would be Daniels Seventieth Week. Scott tells us that that week of years was fulfilled two thousand years ago. Almost all of the so called prophesy experts Ive read and heard say that that week of years has not yet come. I say half of the week expired two thousand years ago with the death of Jesus. And the remaining three and half years is yet to come. I also believe that the week cannot continue until the Church is Raptured. We are the ones withholding the prophesy that is yet to come. As long as the body of Christ is on earth we are Gods witnesses to the world. When we are raptured, then the Nation of Israel becomes Gods witness to the world. That is when the two Prophets will show up in Jerusalem. They were there talking with Jesus 2,000 years ago. They represent the law and the prophets. They too will be slain for the word of their testimony. These are not members of the New Testament church. These are Israelites after the flesh and will witness to Israel after the flesh for three and a half years. The GREAT TRIBULATION will take place during the last seven months of their ministry. That is when the seven trumpet judgments and the seven vial judgments will be poured out. Scott says that a real battle will not be held in a real valley of Megiddo. There would not be enough room to hold the armies of the world. In case nobody has noticed, when the first four seals are opened in the book of Revelation, a fourth part of everyone is killed. Plus the Church will already have been raptured. When the seven trumpets are sounded another third of all living are killed. When the vial judgements are poured out everyone in the sea is killed. The earths population and the armies of the ten nations that will come against Jerusalem will have been greatly diminished by the time of the battle of Armageddon. When they succeed in killing the two prophets three and a half days before the battle of Armageddon, they will party in the valley of Megiddo. Then comes the last trump, and a great shout, and all the saints, and the Lords mighty angels will come and fight against Satan and his angels, the Antichrist, the false prophet and the armies of the ten nations. This will be one hell of a battle. Yes indeed, who shall be able to stand! After this, a new earthly temple will be built near Jerusalem. Israel after the flesh will keep the commandments of Moses, with the meat offerings and the Sabbaths and new moons, and the various feast days, pointing back to the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross and the battle of Armageddon.
Before I forget, I must bring up something that Scott mentioned again about Stephen being stoned. Scott says that that happened three and a half years after the death of Jesus, ending Daniels Seventieth Year, and that the Gospel went to the gentiles at that time. This is not what the Bible states. As far as I can tell the stoning of Stephen took place within the first year or two of the church, and after his death it states that, Acts 11:19, Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. It was not until Peter went down to the house of Cornelius some eigth years after the death of Christ that the Gospel went to the Gentiles. Acts 15:7, confirms this when, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. It was not until seventy A.D., that God used a Roman emperor to destroy the temple and Jewish nation.
On October 9th, Scott discusses the Four Horsemen. It turns out that according to Scott their are no four horsemen. These are actually periods of Church History. Ive heard this before. The four periods correspond to four church ages. This is absolutely nonsense. The four horsemen are described in Zechariah as being the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth. That sure doesnt sound like historical periods of time to me. The first four seals are opened in immediate succession. The White angels preach the everlasting Gospel. The Red angels bring war. The Black angels bring judgment against the great whore. The Pale angels bring famine, disease and murder. This total chaos is caused by the Secret Rapture of the Church. Of course Scott doesnt believe in that so he has to come up with something else. When the rapture of the church takes place three and a half years before the Day of the Lord, there will be total confusion among the Christian nations. But the Islamic Nations will be totally intact. They will take control of the world. The Mark of the Beast will be the Mark of Islam. The so called beast of the Roman Empire will be made irrelevant by the rapture of the church. The Islamic Empire will be strengthened greatly, especially when the Antichrist turns out to be the leader of the Muslems. God will use the Muslem nations to purge the Christians and Jews that missed the rapture. I dont think its worth my time to address all of the other fairy tale discussion presented by Scott Hakes. I have never heard or read a more naive and immature understanding of future events than that presented by Scott Hakes. Both the pastor of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, Abel Santiago, and Scott Hakes, told me they had never spoken in other tongues. Obviously neither of them has the Holy Ghost and also showed no desire to receive it. Romans 8:5, For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. By Charles Gregory Marlowe. 777